Ariella Schiller - a chat about Out of Step, dreams coming true, and the time warp of teen writing
Hey! Welcome to another issue of Frum Books, home of everything related to the frum publishing world - articles, interviews, recommendations, etc. This week we talk to Ariella Schiller, author of Dreams Delayed, Silent Storms, Price Tags, Bricks and Stones, and the brand new Out of Step. Plus, a list of some of Chanukah’s new fiction releases at the end.
What was your journey to writing like? How did you end up doing the writing that you are now?
I always loved writing, it was always my thing that I was good at in school, and I was that nerd who loves vocabulary and grammar class. Already in high school, I started sending poems to random frum magazines that nobody heard of, and they would get accepted and it made me feel so good.
And then, I think it was in seminary, where I would sit down by the computer late at night and write pieces about growth in seminary, and I sent it in to… Bina magazine? I don't think it was Mishpacha, maybe like Bina or Ami, and they got accepted and it was so exciting. When I came back from sem, I enrolled in Touro of Flatbush, but it's only Tuesdays and Thursdays, so Monday and Wednesdays I wanted something to do. So I became a reporter for this little heimish newspaper in Monsey, The Advocate, it was so cute, and it was a lot of politics and politicians and local black people running for mayor. I was so much fun, and it was writing every day, my name was in the newspaper, but this wasn’t the type of writing I wanted to do.
My mother said, after work, go to Starbucks, sit down somewhere and just write what you want to write. So I would just sit in Starbucks, I would literally write like a chapter a day, which is crazy, halevai achshav, and that's how my first book came about. Then I started writing small pieces for Mishpacha - Life Takes, Windows, things like that. Jewish Press serialized Dreams Delayed, my first one and then they wanted another serial so I did Silent Storms. By Price Tags, Hamodia wanted it, so I gave it to Hamodia.
Meanwhile, I had applied for a proofreading job in Mishpacha and I got it. I would just sit at my desk, proofreading, not calling attention to myself, never saying I'm a writer. Somehow it caught up with me and now I'm one of their assignment writers, they’re always sending me to interview this person or do that or write this. And I wrote two fiction stories for them and I don't know if it should be on the record or not, but I'm starting a serial for them in like two months iy”H.
That’s exciting! Another teen one or an adult one?
No, it's for family first, and then Pesach time I'm doing another teen one.
Proofreading is very different from writing your own novels. What's the difference between those things, both writing but so different?
It's so funny because one time the head of the proofreading team, Mr. Pride, went on record as saying it's two totally different sides of the brain, he can’t imagine that anyone who would be good at proofreading is also good at writing creatively. I missed this quote, he said it to Shana Friedman or something, and the next day he calls me in and he's like, by the way, Mrs. Schiller, I just want you to know when I said that quote, you are the one exception to the rule. And I was like, what quote, and then he told me, I was like, oh, thank you!
Interestingly enough, I can balance both. I'm not good at math, I'm just very good at grammar. I guess just because I understand the flow of writing, I don't know.
Do you see writing more as a science than other people do because of that, it's not just an art but more of like, you get into the nitty-gritty and you understand how it works?
So when I do see people who just spill their writing onto a page, which is amazing, I can look at it and I could see where they need to cut it to have the rhythm show, it's very clear to me.
You have a very strong style for yourself. Do you ever let that bleed into your editing or do you just let everybody do their own thing?
I'm very into that every writer’s voice should show. So I'm very clear about what’s my voice and what isn’t, and if someone has a different voice, I want their voice to show. But also for Mishpacha, I'm a proofreader, not an editor, there's a big difference. Proofreading is really just grammar. Editing would be like, “Oh, this character shouldn't have that habit, it doesn't suit her” and they get to make all these changes. We're not allowed to do that. Sometimes I’ll see something and then we have to send an email, it's a whole hierarchy.
Does grammar have a style? Is there a different style that different writers have or there are just the rules and this is the way Mishpacha does things?
So Mishpacha does have what they call the Style Guide, which is where they have what they want italicized, how they want Hebrew words written, different things like that. But I do think that people have their own style of grammar. Some people are very partial to em-dashes, some people are always putting semicolons, I know Yisroel Besser always has colons. Like you just know people's style.
You were doing your proofreading writing for adults, and then you got into teens. What brought you to teens?
It was actually a crazy Hashgacha story and such a good lesson for young writers. I had written Dreams Delayed, Silent Storms, Price Tags, and Mishpacha was already giving me assignments and loving my writing skills, So I said, “Let me write a serial for you.” There was even a story with Price Tags, how I had first pitched it to Shana Friedman before starting to work at Mishpacha, and she loved it and she took it. Later she said she couldn't publish it because it was too similar to a serial that Esty Heller was writing at the time called Money Talks.
So then I was like, if Shana is willing to give me a serial in the main magazine, of course Bassi [Gruen] would want to give me a serial in Family First. And Bassy was like, “Not happening. You are nowhere near our level of what we're looking for, you're just a newbie. What you have to do is first write short fiction stories, and then if you write like, five short fiction stories and I really like how you write them, maybe we could discuss the serial. “
So I sat down one day, and I was like, Okay, I'm writing a short fiction story for Bassi. It took me half a day, like 10 hours and I'm plugging away, and I polished it up and I drafted this and that, okay, it's perfect. I sent it to Bassie, and she says, “Ariella, it's an amazing story, I think it's more mat’im for teens.”
And I was heartbroken. I was like, that's so insulting, I'm so hurt, blah, blah, blah. But I sent it to Daniela Thaler’s team, and Daniela writes back that this is amazing, we must have you write a teen serial for us - starting in two weeks. That was Bricks and Stones.
I totally fell into it, flying, two weeks planning, it was crazy. And then as soon as Bricks and Stones was over, Danielle was like, “Nu, next one”, so I did Out of Step.
And after that Bassie called me, “Can you write the serial for us?”
So dreams do come true! It took years and years, from me thinking I'm all that, “Of course I could do this” and Bassy’s like “No, you need so many more years of experience” to actually getting there, it’s just incredible, Baruch Hashem.
In what way is adult writing higher up there? Isn’t teen writing more difficult?
I think less people can do teen writing because you still have to hold on to that bit of youth and understanding of the angst and the emotions. But adult writing just comes under critique much more because there are so many adults who are reading it who are going to either relate or totally not.
The bigger teenage stage you had, the more you think you'll always remember what it's like to be a teenager. But I feel like those people actually leave being a teen behind pretty quickly because you're finally in the safety of adulthood. So it is sometimes hard for me to remember what it's like, how everything is so important when you're a teenager, every little thing, every piece of criticism, every piece of feedback, the whole world must be thinking about you and your teachers go home at night just thinking about you, for sure! And just that self-absorbance and self-involvement and it's also an amazing time, so I just don't know if everyone's even willing to look back at it because it's such a difficult stage. You have to be willing to go back there and sit down and be like, Okay, right now the world is falling apart. I’m totally self-involved… It's hard.
When you have these two projects going on, your Family First one and your teen one, do you approach them in a different way?
One hundred percent. First of all, I do a lot of research. So for the teen ones, I talk to all my nieces and nephews and neighbors, cultivating information and listening to their conversations. So it's just so different from sitting in the park at the bench listening to other mothers and being like, Oh, I'm gonna use that.
Besides having teenage characters, what makes a book teen versus adult?
It's the level of emotional intelligence, of how emotionally evolved these characters are. How much can you expect from them?
Your adult books do have some sensitive topics, so where do you see the breakdown - who do you want reading your books?
I tried to make them so that anyone who reads them can read them all. I usually say if you’re in the parshah you shouldn't read it - if you're about to get engaged, don't read Dreams Delayed, if unfortunately, you're suffering from infertility, don't read Silent Storms. I don't know if you know, but Silence Storms was endorsed by ATIME and they made me a book launch party. It was crazy because I was so scared that I was offending people and they said that they are sent things all the time, and they have never once been comfortable endorsing, this was the one thing they were willing to endorse. But otherwise, anybody who you know who needs a good book to read can pick it up and hopefully enjoy it.
There are so many side stories that you weave in on the side, like Bella Rena’s brother Naftali, and Bubby and Atara, until somehow you subtly weave it in so that it plays such a big part in her growth. What is your goal for all these extra little parts that are going on?
I think that the greatest need you have, especially when you're a teenager, is to connect with those around you. You might think I'm too busy for friends, I'm too busy for relationships, I'm so overwhelmed right now with what's going on, my life is so hard or so busy or so this or so that. But at the end of the day, the people around you are having an effect on you. It's your grandmother who's living with you, or your brother who's going through something, and they can have an effect on you without you noticing. Your eyes can be totally closed, or they can have an effect on you because you're making a relationship with them or in Atara’s case because you’re leaving someone's life. But I think Hashem gives us messages through all the people who surround us. And I guess that's just what I was trying to show. If you open your eyes, you could just learn from everyone who's around you who Hashem put in your life at this very moment when you're going through this nisayon or whatever it is.
Between the plot, the setting, and the characters, what's your main focus?
Character development. Interestingly enough, I usually first focus on the characters. Then I think this person is a real person, she exists in my head, she has likes and dislikes, and if she's gonna go to school today, the sort of things that are going to happen to her are X, Y, and Z. You know, she's gonna go to the grocery store. This is how she's gonna get out of the car. This is what she's gonna be thinking as she puts her back over her shoulder because she's so real to me. I know what's her type and what's not her type.
Do you read Jewish novels?
Sure.
So what's your favorite?
I get so inspired by seeing what other frum people come up with. I'm like, wow, how'd you come up with that idea? That was amazing. So I love all of M. Kenan, The Betrayal, Meir Uri Gottesman, I feel like is just poetry, and Yair Weinstock.
These authors don't write in your style, what you're actually producing is almost a different genre.
Sure, and I do read things more similar to mine like Reva Pomerantz. Maybe with those, I'm a bit snobbier because they're similar. Like the writers who are writing in Family First, I'm constantly comparing myself to them, so I don't know if I would pick up a novel. But I think any Jewish writer who produces something from their imagination and does it well is just amazing.
For readers that love your books and style, what would you say they should read next?
I love Esti Heller, Yardsticks and all those stories are amazing. Dov Haller is amazing, I know we don't have a similar style. Also Gila Arnold, I know she has a serial now in the Mishpacha and I think she has other novels published. [Learning Curve] I feel like these are feminine, light.
Out of Step is ‘contemporary drama’ teen novel that will be loved by teens and adults alike. If you or your daughter loved Bricks and Stones, you’ll like this one even more! Check it out at Israel Bookshop here.
Chanukah New Releases
There isn’t much new this year, especially for kids. In adult novels, there are a couple -
Deception by Libby Lazewnik - Artscroll
Twists and Ties by Rachel Schorr - Israel Bookshop
The Cuckoo Clock by Esther Rappaport - Israel Bookshop
Makeover by Rochel Braverman - Israel Bookshop
Bridges Across the World by Rachel Pomerantz - Menucha
The Insider, by Nachman Seltzer, is Artscroll’s big hit of the season and will probably be the top gifted item this Chanukah. (aside from the new Kichel book). It’s a fascinating read, really fast-paced, dramatic, and told in Nachman Seltzer’s signature out-of-order style. As I suspected, it’s a cross between Our Man in Jerusalem and Incredible - more storytelling and less memoir style. View a great preview and an interview with the author here.
There are frum book nerds in all corners of the world - if you know one of them, please send this to them!